Are the new “Red Flag” laws the gun grab we’ve been warned about?
In states all over the country, red and blue, led by both Republicans and Democrats and supported by voters of both parties, we have seen the proliferation of so-called “Red Flag” laws (RFL). What are these laws exactly?
RFL allow the advance confiscation of firearms from a person’s property based on little more (or in some cases, nothing more) than someone, ANYONE, reporting to “authorities” that the person may have said, done or otherwise indicated at some point in time that they might be a danger to themselves or someone else at some point in time in the future. The law enforcement is able to obtain an extreme risk protection order (ERPO) and forcibly confiscate all firearms from that person.
Due process comes later. That’s the problem with the laws. You can have your guns taken away and be forced to undertake a lengthy and costly legal journey in order to get them back, all because someone accused you of being dangerous. They don’t have to have hard proof. They just need the “authorities” to believe them enough to do it.
Obviously the legal process of getting your guns back is the punishment in itself. That’s the whole point.
I’ve had voters from both parties (since apparently we’ve only got two parties to “choose” from) tell me that they support these laws. I had my Republican Congressman tell me to my face that he supports them. Obviously the Democrats do.
If you’re reading this website or have ever been to my blog you’re probably the kind of person who is well aware of the general concern in right wing circles of an eventual widespread, door-to-door firearm confiscation. Many of you will refer to that as a “SHTF event”. The ideas of how or when that will take place vary widely from tongue to tongue but for all intents and purposes, it’s assumed that the Feds would love it if one day they were able to achieve Feinstein’s plan to have “Mr. and Mrs. America turn ‘em all in”, or Hillary’s implementation of “Australian-style gun control”.
With that understood by most of the readers here, I’m sure you can all see how these RFL may eventually become the confiscation we’ve been warned about all along. RFL allow the state to use almost any reason they desire to go to your home, enter it and take your firearms away from you. All they have to do is justify it to themselves.
Make an angry, politically-charged Facebook post? A RFL can be used to confiscate your guns. It has happened.
Make a Twitter post that “authorities” interpret as being Islamophohic? A RFL can be used to confiscate your guns. It has happened.
You get in an argument with your woman and piss her off? A RFL can be used to confiscate your guns. It has happened.
Spare me the talking points on the legal limits of RFL at the present time. All they needed to do for now is get the laws into place. Rest assured they will be administratively and bureaucratically tweaked and adjusted so that it gets EASIER for the boys wearing the Oakleys to kick your door in, and those bureaucratic and administrative tweaks will make it harder and more expensive for you to get your guns back. Assuming that you ever get them back at all.
RFL are the tool that willll be used to get guns away from anyone and everyone that those in charge don’t want to have them.
All the talk that’s been had in your group about being quiet about your guns… Put that into action now. Ditch the NRA stickers, stop the good old boys gun discussions down at the local watering hole, remove the vanity pics from Facebook (why do you still have FB?). No one needs to know about your guns if they don’t live in your house. It won’t be easy to change those habits, but it’s time now. The legal framework for taking your guns away simply for being a wrong-thinker is in place. The local Kommissar has his eyes open and the police will follow their orders to knock on your door when they get the order.
Share This Story, Choose Your Platform!
About the Author: admin
14 Comments
Comments are closed.
GUNS N GEAR
Bad laws are always sold at the beginning with the best of intentions.
Asset forfeiture laws were sold as being a tool that would only be used against “untouchable” international narco cartel bosses.
Now they are used by pirate police depts to rob ordinary citizens of their personal cash property without due process.
RFLs sold as an extremis-only solution today will be used in the future by Leftists to disarm their conservative political enemies en masse.
This is as easy to predict as tomorrow’s sunrise.
“Policing For Profit: How Civil Asset Forfeiture Has Perverted American Law Enforcement”
Zerohedge, August 24, 2019
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-23/policing-profit-how-civil-asset-forfeiture-has-perverted-american-law-enforcement
It’s a terrible law. The People wanted it though. It’s even just as bad that The People can’t stop using social media. It’s even worse that they can’t stop posting things like open threats and drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. Social media is a narcissistic sickness that highlights the reason that laws are allowed to pass like this. Too busy paying attention to themselves to watch what’s happening around them.
I definitely agree with not sporting the Negotiating Rights Away sticker but for other reasons as well.
Weirdest thing seeing all these icons for social media on here to share or fill in my details.
I’m a LEO but I don’t wear Oakleys. What’s that brand your wearing in that picture?
Red Flag Gun Laws: Connecticut Man’s Firearms Seized Because His Son Shared A Meme On Facebook
on “The Burning Platform” / August 24, 2019
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2019/08/24/red-flag-gun-laws-connecticut-mans-firearms-seized-because-his-son-shared-a-meme-on-facebook/
Matt,as a LEO at what point does the govt. cross the line where you would quit?I have a friend was CHP in Cali.,huge busts with corrupt cops in that outfit years back and he quit out of disgust,not legal wrong doing.He did move on to a sherrifs dept. in another state and refuses to support what he considers dumb laws,he only helps people on side of road ect. and gets into the law enforcement when he sees folks a direct threat to others in his community.We have discussed this a lot as while I agree with him he realizes he is also by doing so becoming the law himself,one of many mental conundrums we discuss in regards to the world.
The asset forfeiture laws with their abuse definitely I believe make the cops at least come across as a enemy of the people,red flag laws will make that image worse.
Don’t allow the camels nose to work its way under the side of the tent.
James
I’ve been in several agencies in various types of law enforcement. There always have been and always will be stupid laws. In fact there was still a law on the books where you couldn’t carry wire cutters when I started. Way outdated. The Brady bill was stupid but it was changed. We didn’t quit. At that time I was a reserve cop while on active military duty till I deployed overseas again. Everyone hated me. I didn’t quit and I was very vocal about our rights being trampled.
You know what the great thing is about busting dirty LEOs is? That it happens. When it stops happening then you need to worry. Agencies that aren’t busting dirty officers are a bad thing because they exist in EVERY single agency.
You want to know when I’ll quit? I retire in a year and a half. Now redirect your finger and answer this: The People when are they gonna quit making, requesting and wanting dumb laws?
How to beat the red flag laws:
https://ncc-1776.org/tle2019/tle1022-20190526-05.html
I think attempts at confiscation are an act of war. I will respond accordingly.
Obviously, I’ve chosen not to be a grey man. We’ll see how that goes. Too old to give a damn…
Matt,I have tried on local/state level to fight “dumb laws”(for all the good it has done),feel my friends approach probably the best though still begs the ? when one chooses to not enforce some laws are you a “bad cop”,like I said,we talk about this a lot(among a lot of other issues).
Wire cutters?
When I asked the quit ? me friend has said any call for say firearm confiscation will have him leaving the back door with supplies and intell,says he feels he is far from alone in this stand regarding this or other bad orders but obviously cannot for most part speak about it with guys in his crew as some would see this as a good thing,part of the reason we talk as he knows will not be speaking to his superiors in agency or pols about his view.
Fasting or How to Improve your physical, mental, and spiritual battle preparedness while doing less.
I’m glad Matt Bracken mentioned the precursor to this with civil forfeiture laws. Both that law and this one operate on the same principle of finding convenient ways around the presumption of innocence. In the case of civil forfeiture, they – no joke – accused your money or property of guilt because they knew people had presumed innocence.
Now, they’re not even trying to worm around it anymore. You’re just guilty, and you’ll have to pay to prove otherwise. One judge, after finding out a scorned woman decided to falsely “red flag” her ex as an act of revenge, said he didn’t want to dissuade legitimate victims from coming forward. The result? No charges were pressed against her.
The legal construct of presumed innocence, while not perfectly applied through history, has held up western civilization since at least the time of the Catholic canon lawyer Paucapalea (~1150 AD) who made the case right out of the book of Genesis. Even the Lord treated Adam with the presumption of innocence while knowing he was guilty.
These laws are meant to do is grind you down and demoralize you.
James
Before all the current carry laws I pulled over a lady at 2am. She immediately started crying. I asked why. She said I have a pistol in the car. I said well leave it alone and tell me why. She said my husband says I need to cause I get off at this time, drive in from the town south of us and do the bank drop on the way home. I said yeah he’s right. If I’m not tied up on another call I’ll wait for you at the bank or follow you from the edge of town to do your drop at night when I’m working. Have a good night.
So I’ve been a “bad cop” not following the letter of the law before.
Ain’t no big deal.
Something I taught my kids as they were growing up. There’s right, there’s wrong and there’s the law.
Even as a LEO I believe this.
One of the examples I used was the family and I were driving and a doe was sitting in the middle of the center line with her back half crushed. There was no cell signal because it was real remote. I pulled over and did what needed doing.
As we drove off I asked them, both teen hunters at that point, if what I did was legal. They both said no cause it was outta season. I asked if what I did was right. They both said yes. I asked are you confused? They kinda mumbled and we talked it out till they fully understood. It would have been wrong to just go on and let it suffer. Being skilled capable people we have an obligation to act properly and accordingly. Some folks don’t know how to kill or can’t kill. We were armed and I’m strong enough to remove her from the road. My daughter was skeptical wether she coulda but I said you ain’t alone are you? Together we are real strong cause all 3 of us could throw her if we worked together. We discussed man over beast. The difference between hunting and what was done.
Right, wrong and the law.
The more dumb laws the harder this is.
They can use low “social credits” to set “red flags” on gun owners.
via Forget 1984, We’re Facing A Brave New World | Zero Hedge
Replying to TonyTran… I think our “leaders” have managed to achieve quite a bit of both. We live in an Orwellian-Huxleyesque society at this point.
read ‘unintended consequences’ by john ross, or bracken’s books. ross’s book is harder to find since the original is out of print but there are re-prints that can be found. reading this article i’m reminded of a trip to my most red neck local gun store some years ago when the owner and several patrons were asking how long they’d be allowed to keep their guns. as i was leaving during this i asked them, ‘what ever happened to my cold dead hands’ and they looked like they had been caught with their hands in the cookie jar. at some point you have to consider who you are and what you will do.