Subsonic considerations, Part 2

Subsonic considerations, Part 2 -continued from Part 1, here

Subsonic loads, while less noisy than supersonic ammunition, are not silent. Maximum noise reduction requires a suppressor and even suppressors cannot eliminate all the noise, although well-engineered examples used with loads with light powder charges, such as some .22 LR and some centerfire pistol loads fired from long barrels come very close.  Any discussion of using subsonic ammunition would not be comprehensive without discussing suppressors, although this issue is complicated.

Some folks have told me that they are not concerned with obeying the law, as during a SHTF scenario the laws on [name your issue!] will not be enforced as there will be nobody to enforce them. Perhaps, and then again, maybe not. On the one hand, you will certainly be placed on a list for future ‘special attention’ should you purchase such an item with the requisite tax stamps and approvals. Given the present legislation wending through the US Congress, that is a non-trivial concern. On the other hand, anyone who has ever bought a firearm from a dealer or anything shooting related on-line is on some sort of list, and one must consider the consequences at present of being caught with an illegal suppressor.

As noted in Part 1 of this article, we are in the beginning stages of the breakdown of these presently united States. Part of what we see today and a symptom of this collapse is the selective enforcement of the law, where laws are used to discriminate against those the present authorities abominate. As just one recent example, look at the treatment of Kyle Rittenhouse, who shot three people, killing two in self defense, to avoid being beaten to death by an enraged Communist mob. Another is the ongoing hysteria revolving around the January 6th Patriot rally in DC. There are other examples, far too many to enumerate here, but my point is that assuming that when one needs a suppressor that one will not then have to be concerned about the law is a mistake. Even as our cities burn, the authorities in those cities are busy prosecuting the defenders, not the arsonists.  It is hard to predict at what point enforcement of firearms laws will become moot, if ever, but clearly we are not at that point now, at least if you love Liberty.

If an Antifa or BLM terrorist were to be caught with an unlicensed suppressor in a jurisdiction ruled by the Left, I would expect the matter to be quietly brushed off by both the legal authorities and the media, similar to the dismissal of arson, attempted murder of police officers, and rioting charges in places such as Portland Oregon.  On the other hand, should a member of the Liberty Movement be caught simply possessing an untaxed suppressor, even absent any other offense, I would expect such a person to be jailed without bail, prosecuted for every offense the DA can fabricate, his house, bank account, and property confiscated, his livelihood ruined, and his real and supposed offenses broadcast endlessly from every media outlet there is. In so-called conservative locales or the jurisdiction of conservative Federal judges, enforcement of these laws is likely to be severe, constitutional objections to these rules and laws notwithstanding. One cannot expect equality under the Law anymore, but there is still lawfare, and with Leftist control of law enforcement, which these days includes the Federal Government, the Left uses lawfare against its opponents. Ruthlessly.

The other point to consider is that like most activities, my understanding from those with experience in shooting suppressed is there is a learning curve for suppressor use. The presence of the suppressor at the muzzle changes the vibration characteristics of the barrel, and the suppressor also changes the pressure curve at the gas port. One cannot simply attach a suppressor to a rifle, especially to a self loading rifle, and expect problem-free results.  While I have never owned one, I have friends who’ve paid the tax and have legal suppressors, and I know from listening to them and watching them sort things out at the range that, like most things, running even a well engineered factory made suppressor effectively takes experience and practice.

Where can you do this if you were to decide to DIY? While some folks may possess or have friendly access to sufficiently private property to do the requisite testing on private land with less likelihood of being exposed to unfriendly eyes, in the Age of Drones and surveillance satellites, what was private 10 years ago may not be now. A small drone 400′ up is hard to see or hear.  Further, any time someone else knows something about you that could land you in prison for 10 years with ruinous fines, your PerSec is threatened.  You will never know when the friend you trust has been ‘rolled’ until you get arrested.  “Three can keep a secret when two are dead.”  Most people do not have private land, or access to sufficiently remote public land to use and test ‘free market’ equipment, and must use public ranges, which require copies of your paperwork. The consequences of being caught with a “free market” suppressor are severe and I do not advise it.  Your mileage may vary; you, O gentle reader, will have to reflect on your situation and decide for yourselves.

There are no good options; suppressor use of any sort comes with risks and issues. My personal decision has been to take the third path, avoid the entire business and try to minimize my noise signature without use of a suppressor. This includes not only low-noise ammunition, but also improving accuracy, so that follow-up shots are not needed. (“If you shoot twice, they know right where you are!”)

With this particular issue having been thoroughly flogged,  flensed and minced,  we’ll move on.

The next thing to consider is the effect of subsonic ammunition on sight requirements. As a young man, I engaged in NRA High Power competition, with indifferent results, but I was able to use military peep sights to hit military style practice targets at distances out to 1000 yards. (For those who have never shot NRA High Power, think big black round dots on pale tan backgrounds. The practicality of known distance High Power competition related to real world combat conditions is often debated.  High Power competition does instill familiarity with position shooting from standing, kneeling, sitting and prone, the four classic field positions used as foundations for most improvised positions.  It also teaches the use of the sling, a definite aid to hitting your target.)

I still have peep sights installed on my defense rifle as good peeps are the best iron sight system available, but these days optical sights are strongly preferred as the primary sighting system, since the target and the sights are all in focus at the same time. I can still hit silhouettes out to 600 yards with irons and special glasses, but my group size is larger than I like , and seeing the target in the first place continues to get more difficult as I continue to age. Target glasses that allow crisp clear sight pictures make the target area an indistinguishable blur; that big black dot can be referenced with some precision, but anything less distinct than black on tan will not be seen. My old eyes do not have the focal range they used to have, nor can I change focus as quickly as I used to do.  At the range, this is an annoyance.  In the field, inability to see game may mean going hungry.  In combat, failure to see the enemy first can mean death.

Even with good eyesight, good optical sights make target acquisition faster and improve precision. With supersonic rifle ammunition, a hit anywhere in the heart-lung area of most mammals is sufficient, and a peep sight or a decent scope without easy elevation or windage adjustment suffices for all reasonable hunting ranges. Not so with subsonic ammunition; the requirements are different.

Subsonic ammunition has lower power, so precise shot placement becomes more important.  By definition, subsonic ammunition does not deliver hydrostatic shock upon impact;  terminal effects are a function of the passage of the bullet through the structure and tissue it strikes.   Torso hits may eventually prove fatal, from infection if nothing else, but if a rapid stop is desired, one must be able to hit the CNS or central circulatory system. If you are out hunting with lower noise ammo after TSHTHTF, and you want to anchor your deer with one shot, a precise hit will be essential.  For close range with subsonic ammunition a red dot may be adequate, but at anything more than 100 yards, with the increased drop and windage and the need to provide accurate distance measurements, a good scope is essential.

So what are the requirements for optical sights used with subsonic systems?  Such a scope should be durable, accurate, precise, and have a good reticle (more shortly) but does not necessarily require high magnification, especially given that ranges will likely be close(r). A lot of folks seem hyped on high magnification scopes, but I prefer a more modest magnification level, for several reasons:

  • Higher magnification scopes of equal quality are often more expensive.
  • At high magnification, wobble becomes more evident, and encourages ‘snatching’ the trigger. From the bench, or using bags in the field, one can mitigate some of the wobble, but I see no reason to make more trouble for myself, and I’d rather not carry any extras in the field.
  • Higher magnification reduces the field of view. At a target match, one is unlikely to have to worry about somebody shooting back, but in some of the situations one may encounter when using subsonics, having an improved awareness of the area around your intended target may be a life-saver. Your target may have a rifle armed buddy nearby; better to see him before you reveal your presence.
  • The higher the magnification, the less effective your optics will be in low light conditions. Given that many of the recent riot/arson events occur at night it makes sense to get all the lowlight capability one can. If you divide the objective width of the lens of your intended optic (in mm) by the magnification, you get an idea of the low light capability of the scope. You want that number to be at least 5; 7 is better. You also want fully coated optically matched lenses to maximize light transmission through the scope.

Right now I run a relatively modest 3.5 to 10 powered variable on my training/subsonic stick, which has a relatively wide field of view at low power which is useful at close range, and the scope can be dialed up to 10x which is adequate for distances out to 200 yards or so on 4” to 6” wide targets using subsonic ammunition. Much larger magnification ranges (~5x magnification range) are currently available, 1.5-8x, 2-10x, 3-15x or 4-20x but they are much more expensive than the more modest scopes with a ~3x range. If one is going to try to match optics across rifles, this added cost is further compounded.

This brings us to reticles. Here is the one I use for subsonics, the Burris G2B mildot:

This reticle is 10 mils from post to post, horizontally and vertically, is marked to 1/2 mil increments and has an uncluttered field of view, allowing undistracted observation of the area around the target.  For subsonic use, I zero at 50 yards and dial for elevations.  I can range using the hashmarks and the various subtensions  to within about 5% to 10% of the actual distance to target as long as I know the target dimensions.  At distances out to perhaps 200 yards with subsonics, or 600 or so yards with high velocity center fire rifle ammunition, this suffices. I have standardized on this reticle and use it on both my training and my centerfire stick. Not only does this simplify training, but in the unhappy event that my primary long range scope fails, I have a backup. 2 is 1 and 1 is none.

Most people use variable power scopes these days, but you must decide how your reticle will present itself as the magnification changes. I’ve run both first focal plane (FFP) and second focal plane (SFP); each has pluses and minuses. I am not going to get into this issue here, but if you are setting up a subsonic rifle, whether it be a .22 or another caliber, as noted, I suggest that with respect to focal plane that you use the same type as your other defensive rifle(s). Shooting for your life is a high stress endeavor; best to keep the mechanics thereof simple.

Having a significant amount of elevation compensation available in the optic is essential, as drops from these kinds of cartridges at distances past 100 yards add up quickly. For example, a 170 grain Keith cast .357 semi-wadcutter delivered at a subsonic 1085 fps and zeroed at 50 yards in my AO would drop about 7″ at 100 yards, arriving there at 1000fps, 377 FPE, and drifting 2 inches in a 10 mph wind.  That is a 2 mil comeup to hit the center of the target, and a tad over a half mil windage.  The same load drops about 49 inches at 200 yards and would have a velocity of about 936 fps, with over 330 foot-pounds of impact energy. To get a center hit on a no-wind day, at 200 yards, you would have to dial 6.7 mils of elevation, with about 1.1 mils of wind drift for 10mph wind.At 300 yards, that 170 grain cast bullet still has ~900 fps of velocity and arrives with 300 FPE, but has dropped 130 inches; you’ll have to dial a total of 12 mils of elevation.  My long range stick requires that kind of elevation adjustment only well past 1000 yards, but subsonic loads have different requirements.  Other cartridges with similar velocities and ballistic coefficients have similar drop characteristics, but similar is NOT the same;  you, O gentle reader, will have to do your homework and test your selected load to be sure.  PPPPPP.

To summarize sight requirements:
Any firearm intended for use with subsonic ammunition past perhaps 50 yards, certainly any arm being employed past 100 yards, should be equipped with a high quality precision optic with a duplex reticle with both windage and elevation gradations in either mils or MOA. This scope should have the same type of reticle (mils or MOA) with the same focal plane system and similar spacing of the hashmarks to the reticle you use on your long range centerfire rifle.  Elevation and windage should be readily and repeatably user adjustable in the field without tools with ample elevation adjustment.  The scope should be mounted on a rugged sloped base with oversized screws in heavy duty rings so as to take advantage of all the elevation available.

I will note that when shooting at distance, I usually dial for elevation and hold for wind, whether I am practicing with subsonics at 200 yards, or with centerfire at medium or long range.  My thinking is that wind drifts past 4 mils are rare, except in extreme conditions or at extreme ranges, and the wind usually will change more rapidly than the distance, although if moving targets are contemplated, knowing the incremental drop at the dialed range is very useful.  My dope sheets for subsonics show that data.

To summarize and conclude this 2-part article:

Having the ability to hit with subsonic rounds at distances out to perhaps 300 yards is useful in training for long range rifle shooting. Such skills have potential for practical application, too; subsonic .22LR provides more discretion, and cast bullet subsonic loads can provide more power. .22LR is a viable option as long as ammunition can be had, while cast bullet loads are another tool in the toolbox, at 1/10 to 1/20 the cost of full power rifle rounds, putting them within the price range of almost every American who can afford a firearm. While the likelihood of actually needing to hit with my long distance stick at 1000 yards in my AO is low, in my considered judgment, having trained for shooting at long distance makes shorter distance shots easier; if you train to hit with subsonic loads at 200 or 300 yards or even 100 yards, then you will find transitioning to long range centerfire rifle rounds to be much easier. Besides, as my friends who have ‘seen the elephant’ tell me, Murphy was an optimist; better to have the skill and not need it than need it and not have it. I hope that you, O gentle reader, find my reflections on subsonic ammunition and its employment and appurtenances of use to you. Remember, please, that reading is NOT doing, and time is not on your side.

With regard to all who seek the Light,

Historian

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23 Comments

  1. Matt Bracken March 6, 2021 at 17:01

    Something I have learned about quiet shooting follows.
    I’ve had the opportunity, on the same day, outside on a boondocks free range, to shoot a 22LR rifle (16″ 10-22), and a 5.56mm AR-15 (16″ barrel), firing both weapons with and without a modern, high quality suppressor. (Same threading on both muzzles.) No DB testing equipment used, just human ears, both back at the shooting position and out approx. 100 feet offset to the bullet path.
    The AR firing supersonic 5.56 is very loud without the suppressor, as you would expect. With the suppressor, the “sonic crack” is still roughly as loud as an unsuppressed 22LR. However, it must be noted that the sonic crack does not point to the shooter’s position. The snap of the sonic crack is made as the projectile passes whoever hears it. This means that the people hearing a sonic crack will probably look in a direction different that the actual shooter. This may be enough to suit your mission. This will not work for a mission requiring nearly perfect silence, such as, shall we say, “sentry duty.”
    The 22LR 10-22 shooting supersonic ammo without a suppressor sounds like you would expect, like you have heard thousands of times. With the suppressor, firing standard supersonic ammo, there is still the supersonic “snap” of the projectile. The remaining muzzle blast is negligible, and less than the remaining 5.56, as you would expect. There just ain’t much gun powder in a 22LR.
    With the 22 rifle, with the suppressor, firing subsonic ammo, all you hear is the bolt cycling, and the steel target (if that’s what you are shooting at) being pinged. (And with noticeably more lag compared to the 3,000FPS 5.56.)
    NOW THE REVEAL: the big surprise of the day was using the 22LR 10-22 rifle, 16″ barrel, firing the subsonic ammo, without the suppressor. It’s not much louder than if you were using the suppressor. It turns out that a lot of the noise of firing a 22LR rifle with supersonic ammo is the sonic crack. Take away the sonic crack, and you are left with a very quiet platform, without the need to purchase a suppressor, and it’s paperwork.
    This was confirmed shooting the same supersonic and subsonic ammo out of a 6″ barrel pistol. Here, the sound reduction going from supersonic to subsonic was less noticeable. The “muzzle blast” of even 22LR ammo (sub or supersonic) is still considerable out of a pistol barrel. But out of a 16″ rifle barrel, there is not much “muzzle blast” left over. The gases have largely expanded pushing that bullet down the barrel. So if you eliminate the sonic crack, you have an inherently very quiet platform.
    Try this outside, compared to in an indoor range, and the difference is VERY noticeable. Outside, a 22LR out of a rifle barrel, firing subsonic, hardly needs a suppressor.
    I’ve shot a lot of Aguila Subsonic Sniper, 60 grains at about 950 or so FPS, and it functions and cycles very well out of a 10-22 using standard factory rotary 10-round mags. For best results at range, to stabilize the long 60 grain slug, you’ll need a fast-twist barrel. But if you only care about results at under 100 yards, your basic 22LR rifle will work perfectly well. Even keyholing 60 grain slugs will be inside “minute of man” at 100 yards. YMMV, I’m just passing along what might be useful information.
    Two other notes: 1. A long time ago, I owned a 20″ barrel Marlin bolt action 22LR. I wish I still had it. It would be a perfect “no suppressor needed” 22LR platform for subsonic ammo. 2. The 60 grain Aguila subsonic 60 grain ammo, out of a Ruger Standard Model pistol, functions fine. A long 60 grain slug hitting meat sideways at 100 feet at 900+ fps is nothing to laugh about. I didn’t have a can for the 22 pistol, but if somebody has a 22 pistol with a can, they might want to try the 60 grain subsonic sniper ammo. It won’t win any prizes for accuracy, but who cares? It’ll still be minute of man at tactical range, and very quiet.

    • Matt Bracken March 6, 2021 at 17:05

      Typo above, it should read: “A long 60 grain slug hitting meat sideways at 100 feet at 900+ fps is nothing to laugh about.”

    • Matt Bracken March 6, 2021 at 17:14

      Another thought: while lacking the longer range ballistic performance of long, skinny 300 Blackout, a .45ACP pistol, launching a 230gr projectile subsonic, is damn quiet with a decent can on the end of a 1911 or a G-21.
      Damn quiet. All you hear is the slide cycling, and the steel ringing.
      Put a red-dot sight on the slide, and fire from a “field expedient” rest, and you will have a very effective weapon for “sentry duty” out to 100 yards or more.
      Look up the WW2 British “De Lisle Commando Carbine,” a bolt-action .45ACP suppressed special purpose weapon. I’ll wager that a good 1911 or G-21 with a red dot, fired from support, will be just as accurate out to, or past, 100 yards. All it needs is an aftermarket threaded barrel, a milled red-dot slide, a red-dot sight, and a can. All you will hear is the slide cycling.
      Just food for thought.

    • Historian March 6, 2021 at 20:23

      @Matt:
      Appreciate having an expert comment on this article. Thank you!
      With regard to the Aguila, my experience was similar to yours; it functions in the 10-22, but I had a hard time getting groups better than about 10 inches at 100 yards; I had keyholes all around my target. You are right, that would “put a hurtin’!” on a bad guy, but in terms of making a rapid stop at distance, perhaps less likely. From an AR with an adaptor and 9″ twist, it appears acceptably accurate for headshots to perhaps 150 yards and is quiet. If I had the ability to revisit this round, I would, based on your suggestions, but I doubt I’ll be able to given the present situation. After the disappointment of the keyhole groups, I put my efforts to finding better precision elsewhere and did not stock up on this ammo.
      As regards the performance of the CCI Semi-Auto quiet, that load when shot from my 20″ tube is remarkably quiet without a suppressor, quieter than a highpowered rifle round with a suppressor, one reason I saw no need to put myself through the approval process. With a 45 grain bullet at about 830 fps MV, it drops more, but hits about as hard as the regular subsonic at 100 yards. You can hear it a couple hundred yards away, but not a mile away and as you note, it is not obtrusive, the way the supersonic loads are.
      With regard to .45, with a .45 ACP pump, 20″ barrel, shooting a 255 grain semiwadcutter sized to .452, and loaded with minimum loads of Bullseye or other fast pistol powder, you can get velocities as low as 500 fps to about 750 fps. It is not silent, but not much louder than a handclap, and if you want to avoid paperwork, worth a look; by the time you pay for the 1911 threaded barrel, the can, and the stamp, you’ve bought a pump or lever .45 carbine.
      thanks again!
      with regard to all who seek the Light,
      Historian

      • Matt Bracken March 7, 2021 at 09:41

        Great info thanks! I’d never thought about subsonic .45 out of a rifle length barrel, great idea!
        The Aguila SSS 60 gr is dirty and keyholes out of a standard twist 22LR barrel, but you can get a fast-twist aftermarket barrel that will extend its feasible range out to about 200 yards “minute of man.” The aftermarket barrel will come with no front sight, but it will be threaded with a muzzle cap.

        • wwes March 8, 2021 at 10:54

          Another option with a 40 grain bullet is CCI Standard Velocity, if you can find it right now. it isn’t listed as subsonic ammo, but it is 1070 FPS at the muzzle, so it is subsonic. It’ll put every round into one ragged hole at 30-40 yards in a good bolt gun (I don’t have and semi auto 22’s, so I don’t know how it runs in them) and sounds like someone spitting. Out of a standard CZ 452 or 455 training rifle, or the old long barrel bolt actions from the 40’s/50’s/60’s, they’re really, really quiet- the bullet hitting a squirrel, or the tree it’s hanging onto, is louder than the report of the rifle.

          • Historian March 9, 2021 at 15:49

            Yes, I spoke about that load in Part one; it is the hands-down best balance between cost and accuracy I have found.

          • wwes March 9, 2021 at 15:57

            My apologies, I must have overlooked that when I read them. It is a great load for the money. Thanks for the great article!

          • Historian March 10, 2021 at 11:16

            You’re welcome, glad you liked it!
            With regard to all who seek the Light,
            Historian

    • JC Dodge March 7, 2021 at 10:01

      Or you could just shoot the ,22LR 60gr. Aguila SSS out of a 5.56 AR with the normal twist (1-9″ to 1-7″) with a .22 adapter, like I talked about in this post
      https://www.americanpartisan.org/2020/02/adapting-to-survive-firearms-part-2-the-ar-15-to-22lr-conversion-kit/ and you have the ability to use subsonic ammo with the correct twist in a weapon that has a threaded barrel for a suppressor.

    • hitman March 7, 2021 at 10:51

      Shot literally hundreds of Tree Rats (Head shots only) off my bird feeder from my back porch with a 10 inch barreled Browning Buckmark varmint CCI CB longs. It was effectively a single shot, but there was almost no noise at all. Quieter than a quality air rifle. It was a great pistol. installed a sling swivel on the fore end and mounted a Harris BR Bipod. Would shoot one inch groups at a hundred yards with CCI stingers. May have shot better, but only had a 2 power Leopold on it.

  2. "Sourdough" March 6, 2021 at 18:36

    Two “Outstanding” articles……..thank you.

  3. Johnny Paratrooper March 6, 2021 at 19:10

    .38 special in a threaded lever gun. Silenced shooting begins at 3:49. We pour water into our cans, shake it out, and they are absolutely silent. It’s as loud as a golf hand clap. Every time we show someone how quiet these things are they smile and say “WOW! That’s Quiet!” and they are louder than the gun. This video doesn’t do any justice to the platform. But when they come out with a pistol version “Mare’s leg” of these I am going to buy one.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8G2RFfBMyk

  4. Johnny Paratrooper March 6, 2021 at 19:16

    Great article. Very well thought out.
    May I add that shooting a subsonic round from inside a building or room outside an open window(that is just open “enough”) is basically totally quiet.

    • Historian March 6, 2021 at 21:05

      @Johnny Paratrooper:
      You can suppress the firearm (with a can) or, and you are absolutely correct, you can suppress the report. I thought about covering that, but did not, and it is an excellent point. I harvested a deer by doing exactly that, shooting it at 75 yards through a barely opened window in my house, not wanting to bother the neighbors, but wanting the venison. The DC snipers did the same thing, by shooting from the trunk of a sedan through a small hole, with blankets lining the trunk to help reduce the report. It worked even with supersonic ammunition, and with subsonics it would work better.
      One of my shooting clubs placed straw bales above, beside, and behind the rifle range firing points. It made a difference in noise propagation.
      I would imagine a field expedient hide where one shoots through a narrow gap between sandbags or straw bales would have a similar effect and make it hard to locate the shot.

      • Johnny Paratrooper March 7, 2021 at 00:52

        Yes. That’s called a “Blast Box”. Very popular. You can make one quite simply using wood, foam, and some nails.
        It’ll make the report sound much, much quieter.
        They don’t need to be very big. The window can be small on both sides. The size of a coke can standing up.

  5. James Carpenter aka "Felix" March 7, 2021 at 06:27

    Went the tax/paperwork/fingerprint route and took possession of an Omega w/ARS QD for my one and only AR with 5.56 and 300 Blackout uppers three years ago, At that time I was squeamish about becoming a “bullet magnet” on the government goon squad shooting range. And maybe being on “lists” is a big problem. But in today’s world, anything except cash/private transfer is visible, stored and searchable via Bumble Hives. Why would goons come to seize your 5.56 when you claim to not even own one? The gun itself a “ghost” because you finished a lower yourself sans serial number? Maybe those boxes of 5.56 ammo you paid for with credit/debit card at Sportsman’s Warehouse were a clue? Water under the bridge, spilt milk, no crying but using cash now whenever possible…
    Question: Has anyone retrofitted some of their other guns by having the barrels threaded by a gun smith to accept the ARS QD for interchanging can between guns? One suppressor, serving on a number of rifles, only a twist of the locking cam to change over? (I’d like to have this option for my 22s, 30-06)
    PS: with 300 subsonic, my gun’s bolt cycling seems as loud (or louder) than the report. And you can clearly hear the bullet impact at ranges over 50 yards) But “Hollywood quiet? Uhhh… if my experience is average, NO!. That bolt sounds really LOUD to me. The “sentry duty” scenario makes me wonder… what _is_ possible for Hollywood quiet? Bolt action 22 with subsonic and a can? Anything bigger?
    Thanks

    • Historian March 7, 2021 at 08:53

      @Felix:
      WRT dealing with the action noise in employing 300 Blackout, you have two options as I see it-
      1) I’ve no experience with this myself, but my understanding from those more experienced than I is that there are “on/off” gas blocks that allow you to switch from self-loading to manual operation to reduce action cycling noise. Have no idea what the expense and reliability of these are; perhaps somebody else can comment on that.
      2) Another option would be to use a manually operated action; I touched on this, but with regard to compact options, the old Remington XP100 in .223 could be rebarreled to .300 blackout, while the new Remington 700CP is mag fed and factory available in 300 blackout with a threaded barrel. Barrels in .300 Blackout are available for both the Encore and and the Contender, and there are some other options, too.
      Good luck!
      With regard to all who seek the Light,
      Historian

      • wwes March 8, 2021 at 10:48

        The Savage 110 is really, really easy to rebarrel since the barrel is headspaced and held on with a barrel nut. You can get .300 blackout barrels for them, if you can find one in stock, and one of those barrels combined with a .223 Savage 110 makes for a really easy .300 BO bolt action.
        I think the Savage Axis takes the same barrels, but I have heard that the nuts on them can be next to impossible to remove due to grit in the threads from the media blasting at the factory. I can’t verify that though because I haven’t ever tried to remove the barrel from an Axis.

  6. Rooster March 7, 2021 at 09:15

    A carbon fiber(or like) handguard about 10″+ over a 3″ barreled(pistol) AR-22 is good easily to 100yds with a red dot. 1/2″ pipe insulation inside said tube for cold protection has added benefits.
    R

  7. boss21 March 7, 2021 at 21:58

    Meanwhile suppressors are no problem in Europe. In Finland it is bad manners to shoot without one. What a screwed up word. BTW 1911s are easier to can than the Glocks – no Nielsen device needed. The old Hush Puppies were the best IMHO.

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