Red Dot or LPVO?, by NC Scout

Way back when, in the early days of American Partisan, I wrote an in-depth review of Primary Arms’ 1-8×24 Low Power Variable Optic (LPVO), stating how it had compared favorably with its contemporaries. Its only one in an increasingly crowded market which is full of great options. Most important though, is just how big a game changer the LPVO really is and why you might wanna consider running one as your go-to.

I mentioned in several episodes of Radio Contra that the biggest strengths of the AR platform is its accuracy potential and ease of mounting optics. And when you couple those two, it becomes a natural option for prospective guerrillas. After all, hits matter. Everything else is noise. And the further you can make those hits, the better. Not only that, PID matters too- that is, Positive IDentification. You have to be able to identify the target before you’re able to engage.

400m steel at the farm.

As I train students to do in the Scout Course, 400m, which is an intimidating distance for many, becomes pretty easy with the right instruction, the right tools, and finding those holdovers. Having a dedicated optic that at least gives the shooter an idea where those holdovers are makes a man dangerous in a short order. Primary Arms’ excellent ACSS makes it easy, as does Burris with their MTAC and of course, Vortex’s excellent Strike Eagle and Viper lines. You can’t go wrong with any of these as long as you’re also selecting a quality mount. That point, regarding the mount, is critical. Your rifle is going to get banged up during movement in dynamic environments and no matter how solid your glass might be, the mount is either gonna make or break your system. Don’t cheap out.
It sure sounds like I’m trashing on red dots hard. Do they still have a place?
Yes they do, very much so.

PSA GF3 with Ultimak and Holosun 403, one of my go-to AK carbines.

Much of your equipment selection owes to the intended mission. You have to define exactly what that is. Red dots are geared towards speed for CQB-to-intermediate range targets, streamlining the aiming process by giving a consistent point of aim. Knowing your holdovers to 300m (or beyond, should your eyes be good enough and you’ve done the prerequisite range work) you’re certainly not undergunned. My go-to AKs are outfitted with Holosun MRDs and they function extremely well even at night.

But the fact remains, if you’re running the AR as a primary weapon as most out there do, the principle advantages are ease of mounting optics and accuracy potential even out of entry-level rifles. From what I’ve seen out a of large number of students, both those running LPVOs and those who’ve borrowed mine in class end up performing extremely well. The proof, so its said, is in the pudding. Hits matter and we’re not training for the sake of poking holes.
Interested in training? I’ve got a Fighting Carbine course coming up as well as a large number of training opportunities. Come on out.

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About the Author: NC Scout

NC Scout is the nom de guerre of a former Infantry Scout and Sergeant in one of the Army’s best Reconnaissance Units. He has combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He teaches a series of courses focusing on small unit skills rarely if ever taught anywhere else in the prepping and survival field, including his RTO Course which focuses on small unit communications. In his free time he is an avid hunter, bushcrafter, writer, long range shooter, prepper, amateur radio operator and Libertarian activist. He can be contacted at [email protected] or via his blog at brushbeater.wordpress.com .

17 Comments

  1. Erik Weisz July 13, 2021 at 05:39

    Got me seriously wondering if I’m in good enough shape for some of these courses…

  2. Milo Mindbender July 13, 2021 at 06:15

    I agree, my carbine sports a Truglo 1X6 with illuminated reticle. I keep the front cap closed at night with the power on 1, and dialed to just above off, and get a decent red dot with both eyes open. With the front cap open I can dial up to 6X but need to close the left eye when I do.
    That ability I feel give me the best compromise regarding optics, and the stock mount is a beast of weight, but solid as well.

  3. SapNasty July 13, 2021 at 07:35

    Been trying to decide myself which route to go. Looking at a PA 1-6 vs my current Eotech 512 that im running on an 11.5”
    Any further insight on mounts? Was looking at an Aero precession lightweight, seen only one failure of that mount which turned me off but it could’ve been over torqued. Also found a thread ill attach where the mounts were being tested and the manufactures which are all “quality” mounts threatened to sue if the information was disclosed. Might be BS but ill attach the link.
    Yes i want to run the LPVO vs the Eotech but i don’t want my weapon to be compromised at the worse time because i got a poorly made mount.
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?181935-What-scope-mounts-would-you-like-tested

    • Kevin July 13, 2021 at 13:18

      I have a couple recon mounts that I like, for what that’s worth.
      https://www.admmfg.com/mounts?specs=75,91

    • Johnny Paratrooper July 13, 2021 at 13:59

      LaRue makes good stuff. Solid, Strong, and Certified Tough.

      • KOBK July 14, 2021 at 12:10

        the little bit of Larue stuff I have is totally GTG.
        ACOG -QD mounts and a handful of MBT 2 stage triggers. Both excellent pieces, can’t say enough about the triggers for what they charge and the mount is top notch.

  4. SOG July 13, 2021 at 11:22

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzPlsr5vjaM
    some good info on LPVO’s same as what Scout is touching on, I also agree the AR is so modular, the amount of work it takes to modernize a lot of other platforms is huge and is minuscule with the modern AR, additionally you have one rifle and can have a few different purpose built uppers.
    I am have a Vortex strike eagle and its hits 400yd steel without any effort, its truly a force multiplier and for the prices you cannot beat it.

  5. Anonymous July 13, 2021 at 11:31

    5

  6. Dean M Drews July 13, 2021 at 11:37

    I am 3 times very happy with the fixed PA 2.5 compact. About $250. I have shot it out to 600 yards with 75’s. Locktite the mounting screw or it will loosen under recoil.

  7. Anonymous July 13, 2021 at 13:14

    4.5

  8. Sanders July 13, 2021 at 13:16

    I’m running a PA 1-8 ACSS on my FAL. Ringing steel out to 775 isn’t difficult at all. That’s the max distance I had to work with. Have to go for a drive in order to set up longer ranged targets.

  9. KOBK July 13, 2021 at 14:21

    Timely article. My nephew and I just swapped the barrel on his goto AR from a 11.5 to a 14.5″ and we’re deciding on his main optic. (he’s finally listened to his uncle on the slightly longer barrel for reaching out vs the more compact barrel).
    We have several PA 2x, 3x, 5x Aurora, 1-8x FFP ACSS, Holosun 503r red dots and a couple other things to play with.
    We’ve ruled out the red dot on main rifles, but are still battling fixed prism vs LPVO. Everything is a compromise as we all know.
    So far we’re both leaning toward the LPVO with either an Aero mount or Night Force 20moa extended unimount. Not too worried about QD.
    Even though there’s some longer clear cut areas around here with some distance, most is close up bush where the red dot would rule. The 1x on LPVO is just a touch slower, the various fixed prisms with Bindon Aiming Concept is a little slower so we’ve been doing a lot of testing.

  10. Joe July 13, 2021 at 14:56

    Well said. I’ve also had great luck with the SwampFox Arrowhead series scopes. They come in 1-6x, 1-8x and 1-10x topping out around $550 I believe. I also believe they give MIL/LE a significant discount at 40%. Worth considering in addition to the other highly rated aforementioned LPVOs…

  11. RHT447 July 13, 2021 at 23:15

    +1 to points already made. Some personal observations–
    Red dots.
    First one was an Eotech 512. Needs no introduction. Excellent sight with a long track record, I keep it as a spare.
    Next one was a Holosun 512C. I got this model because it is completely enclosed. Much prefer it optically to the Eotech. Very crisp reticle, long battery life, “shake awake” motion sensor. Haven’t had it long enough to comment on durability.
    Two things that bug me most about red dots.First is that they depend solely on battery power. Yes, I have BUIS, but still…
    I have an 800 lumen light on my AR. With a red dot turned down for darkness, sweeping the light across a white vehicle completely wipes out the red dot reticle until you come off the vehicle. An LPVO with an etched reticle solves both these problems.
    Second is no magnification, for reasons already stated here
    LPVO’s.
    First one was Millet BK81624, now discontinued, which is why I got it so cheap. Liked it optically, but heavy. Weighed a ton on the gun, where ounces become pounds. Sold it to my buddy who is 6 foot 5 for his 308.
    Currently have a Burris RT6. Really like it so far.
    A bit lighter weight.
    More precise reticle.
    Reticle brightness “off” positions between each setting–1, off, 2, off, 3, off, etc. So, quick to turn off, and easy to remember your last setting.
    Position adjustable magnification throw lever.
    Haven’t had a chance to get it on the range yet.

    • Atlas Shrug July 14, 2021 at 21:08

      I too like the Burris RT-6. One rides on my second Go To rifle (my first Go To has a Steiner P4Xi which I like even better).
      Rock on. LPVOs are the Thinking Man’s Optic – and The Fighting Man’s aw well.

  12. Alex July 14, 2021 at 13:51

    Red dots are lighter, have better battery life, and are better suited for night fighting. A 3x magnifier can solve the PID problem, and can be removed from the rifle and stowed in a pack or pouch if necessary.

  13. Hawkeye July 15, 2021 at 11:14

    5

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