Did Spetsnaz use a Water Tamping Breaching Charge to fake a Ukrainian Mortar Attack on a Kindergarten?
Observe this photo carefully and critically.
Was this a blast?
Yes.
But what kind of blast?
I think it was a directional wall breaching charge for MOUNT operations.
Can you also see how it sent the whole wall in a bit judging by the fracture on the left side of photo?
They used something similar to this device below.
Except I believe they used a 20 Liter water or fuel can with a center primed explosive to punch out the wall.
See Image Below Video.
This is a fuel can, but you get the idea….
It is the same basic Shape and Size as the hole in the wall.
I suspect they placed a mat of Explosives primed on the “Can Side’.
Most likely they placed it on a small ladder and leaned it again the wall.
The debris field is the same in both videos.
No marks from any shrapnel is visible.
Nice try liars.
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About the Author: Johnny Paratrooper
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GUNS N GEAR
Good stuff JP. We did this in the ‘90s at Bragg. Coffee jar full of water spiral wrapped in det cord taped to the headboard of an old deuce and a half. Blew a hole in the headboard, dash and ripped the valve cover off the engine. No burn marks.
Thanks for the compliments brother.
I was curious why there was ZERO slash or splash from Shrapnel after you mentioned zero burns in a previous AP post.
You peaked my curiosity and I opened up a can on critical thinking based on my Training, Knowledge, and Experience.
Roger. I was Engineer on Smoke Bomb Hill back in the day. I know some about a lot but a lot about demo
Roger that.
Let’s keep an eye out for more of this.
I will examine the other stuff going on this weekend.
Looks like those False Flags Russia was pointing the finger at us about are in full effect.
Hmm, looks like a window opening to me JP.
See the angle iron lintel support at the top?
Definitely was not a ground det. Appears centered on window.
Agree, could easily have been a simple water impulse charge as you suggest. But, was not a water tamped charge frame. The charge frame would not push the wall like that but, a water impulse charge absolutely would.
That’s mortar that you are mistaking for a lintel.
Mortar the mixing agent.
Not the ordinance. :)
Check the VOA video at 23-25.
You can seen the color match for mortar is the same.
I bet they pulled up, placed the charge, and drove away.
Yeah, I can’t tell. But, you’re right, that was not a mortar round.
This is great. It was lonely pointing this stuff out in the ‘90s , Waco, even 9 11. Thank God.
Ha! This is why you have to be so careful and respectful on the forum. You never know who you’re talking to, where they’ve been, or what they know.
YOWZA! BelieverPatriot!
Lotta boots-on-the-ground, hands-on hard learned experience here–very little BS.
The wall is rather thick. 4 layers of bricks? Is that common there?
Russia is old world . NYC is similar. Everything is built to last.
My swat team uses water charges.
That ain’t no mortar
Correct.
Anyone who has done this for a living knows exactly what they are looking at.
So I have no experience with demo whatsoever, but if it had been a mortar like tptb are saying, wouldn’t the blast have been directed downward, or hit on a roof, or something like that, rather than being directed directly inward through the wall? It would seem like the trajectory of a mortar would make it hard to get a hole like that straight through the side of the wall. That might be a totally incorrect assumption on my part, but it was the first thing that came to mind when my inexperienced self saw it.
A mortar can be used for two types of fire missions.
Indirect Lay – Which is the high angle attack you are familiar with and is always shown in Hollywood no matter what distance the fictional enemy is at.
Direct Lay – You aim at your target the same way you would use any other weapon like an RPG, Rocket, Missile, or Recoilless rifle.
You cannot hold onto the weapon though. A light mortar system like a 60mm must be placed up against a tree, a hard wall, vehicle, or stuck into the dirt.
You could also turn a technical vehicle into a mini tank or artillery piece.
60mm Mortars can perform this handheld task assuming they have a trigger mechanism.
A 80mm or 120mm Mortar cannot.
That hole is more along the lines of a 120mm Mortar. So it could have been placed in the bed of a truck and pointed directly at the wall.
But there would be an incredible amount of marks from Shrapnel. It would look like someone dumped 200 rounds of 7.62 into that building.
And there would be spalling damage in a consistent ring around the impact.
Why do we assume the Spetnaz did this water tamped charge? IIRC the New York Slimes was bragging about how the CIA was training Ukies on how to use explosives and sniper tactics over the past year or so.
I’m pretty sure the CIA also has that level of training as the demo guys posting on this list.
I also notice the pipeline bomb this week didn’t strike where the Ukies “Natural Gas Passage” was affected, just the separatist area heating gas. Seems someone *still* wants their money for “Allowing” heating gas to pass through to Ukraine and the EU.
Russia doesn’t want Country 404 error message; they want the Minsk agreements for the Ukies to stop shelling and sniping at the folks that VOTED to Join the Russian Republic. Oh, and for the USA to stop deploying nuclear weapons system up against their boarder. It’s some 500Km from Ukraine to Moscow IIRC. Ukraine the Traditional Invasion Route of Napolean and Hitler.
I will MISS the Internet and Electricity when Russia finally stops using diplomacy. But I BET the Elites of the Davos Crowd will be quite safe in their bunkers when this goes down.
I hope you’ve spent at least as much time preparing for a grid down situation as your patrolling classes. Your families will like having options when they never have to pay an electricity bill again.
“I hope you’ve spent at least as much time preparing for a grid down situation as your patrolling classes. Your families will like having options when they never have to pay an electricity bill again.”
Learning small unit skills, comms, food production and preservation, etc. should all be complimentary skills. Folks who just focus on one or two areas are going to have some serious problems down the road.
They only voted to join after the tanks and guns showed up.
But before that the Political officers disappeared people and dumped their bodies in very public, very violent ways.
Using methods that the good guys should avoid, less they lose the mandate of the people.
Odd Johnny that somehow the Media in its full-throated effort to Russia,Russia,Russia everything seemed to have Missed that excellent chance to show Russian nastiness.
Even MORE Odd they would not show it over and over again RIGHT NOW as to “Prove” the lack of Russian support in the so called “Occupied Zones” of the Ukraine?
Got links please? I could drop a few links of the Jim Crow Era “Voting” if you like. Not as nasty as the stopping of vote counting and restarting it past midnight with cardboard over the windows, but the results gave us the Sock Puppet, eh?
Propaganda works best when the target audience WANTS to hear it. We make fun of liberal echo chambers for accepting such flimsy “Acting” as the tiki torch holding “White Supremist” (Including a back and a female all in alike uniforms) when the left is tarring some Republican in VA.
Mandate of the People INDEED.
Aside from all the speculation on what caused the hole in that building this article is wrong on it’s face.
The referenced incident was on a ‘Ukranian’ kindergarten not a separatist one, there would be no point for spetsnaz to attack an enemy structure and then blame it on the seperatists. The more lucid discussion would be about if this was staged by the Western backed Ukranianians or was indeed a shelling by separatist forces.
Side note: I discussed this with an 18B buddy of mine that just got out and we both were in agreement it looks like a small (80-120mm) HE round with an impact fuze. Although the apparent angle of attack is somewhat questionable for a typical mortar strike.
Exactly, today’s NYT front page shows a destroyed house and civilians looking sad. Headline -‘ Luhansk shelled by Russian backed separatists ‘ . So they are shelling their own city?! The Ukrainians have been shelling the east for 8 years.
It’s not speculation on what caused that hole.
There is no shell on earth that could have caused that without creating a circle of Shrapnel in every direction.
It would be distinctly obvious.
Think of the spalling from shooting steel with a rifle or 9mm.
Same principle.
Mortars, RPGs, and Impact munitions like a 40mm do it.
Somebody blew a hole in that building with a water charge.
Even the debris pattern from the Demo video looks the same as the site footage from FOA.
The fact that Russia blamed Ukraine is why I assume Russia is Guilty.
Perhaps Ukraine breached the building and arrested a bunch of Russian Operators? Then Russia cooked up a story to save some face?
I am far from a professional but if that was a breaching attempt it was poorly executed, and I am certain if there were Unconventional Russian forces that were killed or captured that would be the headline.
The most logical conclusion if you are settled on this being a staged event is that the Ukranians and/or Western intelligence services perpetrated the act to further beat the war drums.
That’s my thought.
The most logical assumption is that they simply blew a hole in a wall. Most likely the same building the operators were operating from. Assuming the reports of students being in the building are untrue.
Which I believe they are. Those soccer balls are brand new and unmarked from any use.
I have no way of knowing if it was Russian or Ukrainian. It’s my understanding the Russians accused Ukraine of the fowled attack.
I assumed it was Russia blaming Ukraine for something they did. However, it’s equally possible that Ukraine did it. Why they would do it is a mystery though. It only harms them. They never tried to counter with their original or backup narrative either.
It could have been a third party as well.
I proposed the Question “Did Russia..” Not “Russian Forces Attack…”
Fair enough mate, either way thanks for taking time to pose a thought provoking question.
“But before that the Political officers disappeared people and dumped their bodies in very public, very violent ways.
Using methods that the good guys should avoid, less they lose the mandate of the people.”
No… We just do it a little less greasy here in the West. We would rather just bankrupt you and throw you in prison on trumped up charges, or have you killed in a thinly veiled police action, or suicide you and leave you on a park bench so your family thinks you did it yourself. Americans are waking up this and the Corporation that has been masquerading as the Republic IS losing that mandate. They can’t cancel or silence their way out of it. We have a Sovereign that rules over us here now. Just look at what has happened to private property rights over the last few decades and you’ll know that you own nothing.
For sure no way is that a ground blast mortar or a high velocity horizontal HE round. I’m not familiar with these water-tamped charges, but the references and links seem solid and line up with what old demo knowledge I have. Ask me about C4/steel platter charges, shaped charges etc circa 1980s, that I know. This goes past my personal demo experience, but my old general hands-on knowledge of demo says this was a charge laid onto the wall for sure, “tamped” in some way, with water possibly, or a mattress, etc. But a mattress or plywood etc would probably leave forensic evidence, while water tamping probably would not, at least at a superficial/imagery level. I have no demo knowledge beyond open sources past the mid-80s, but I think this is a great observation.
Sorry, I made a mistake in the above post. I should not have said “tamped,” that would have meant the tamping material was on the OUTSIDE of the demo to put more force against the block wall. I should have said BUFFERED. I think the water was between the demo and the wall, spreading out and buffering the shock wave, pushing in that big hole. A tank round etc fired at a wall looks completely different.
Perhaps I misunderstood stood the design principle.
It’s been about 14 years since I have seen a water breech charge in training.
I can’t recall if the IV Saline Solution bags were used against the door or against the charge.
I do know that placement of the detonator is important too.
The only ones I have used are Copenhagen cans with det cord and an IV bag placed on the door handle/door jam.
It’ll take a door off it’s hinges.
Good piece of kit.
PS: I think, based on what you posted, comments above, and my old demo knowledge, that this was a “faked” false flag blast, NOT a typical high-angle mortar attack. Therefore, it’s critical to ascertain whose kindergarten this was, and any verified casualties or no casualties. If it was a Ukraine-loyal kindergarten, then Occam’s Razor says it was a Uki false flag to blame Russkis. If it was a Russian loyal kindergarten, then the Russkis done it. If it happened during school hours with no casualties, it was probably a FF job done with local cooperation (even cooperation at gunpoint).
Fascinating. I had no idea water tamped charges exist. Thanks for the info JO & Bracken!