Doubts about scout snipers arose in infantry units, No. 2 Marine says
WASHINGTON — The Marine Corps’ controversial decision to scrap scout sniper platoons “came from the ground up,” the second-in-command Marine said June 29.
The service in February announced an end to the elite scout sniper platoons, made up of marksmen who also were trained in reconnaissance. Infantry battalions will still have access to platoons’ precision rifles, and reconnaissance and special-operations units will still have snipers, the Marine Corps stressed at the time.
In place of 18-Marine scout sniper platoons, infantry battalions are establishing 26-Marine scout platoons focused on reconnaissance, Marine Corps Times previously reported.
At a speech at the annual Modern Day Marine conference in Washington, D.C., Gen. Eric Smith said the idea for the change originated in infantry battalions and then made its way through the regiments and then the division commanders, who brought the matter to top Marine leaders in the Pentagon.
Commanded by two-star generals, the four Marine Corps divisions are the ground combat forces at the heart of the Marine Corps.
“It was the four division commanders who brought that and said, ‘Hey, we need more scouting. We need ISR — intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance. We need less precision shooting,’” said Smith, the assistant commandant.
“I mean, that was from the division commanders,” he continued. “So if you wish to argue with the four sitting division commanders, go argue with the four division commanders. Good luck.”
The 1st Marine Division is based at Camp Pendleton, California, with 2nd Marine Division at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, and 3rd Marine Division at Camp Butler in Okinawa, Japan. The Reserve’s ground combat division, 4th Marine Division, is headquartered in New Orleans, with reservists all across the United States.
Smith told reporters after his speech that the division commanders provided the feedback through the twice-annual ground board. In this case it was the one in November 2022, Marine spokesman Capt. Ryan Bruce clarified June 30.
The ground board is an opportunity for those commanders to share their thoughts directly with the commandant: “Hey, boss, here’s what you need to know,” as Smith put it.
“They just give us ideas,” Smith told reporters. “We don’t accept them all. But some we do, and that was one we accepted.”
Experimentation with infantry battalions revealed that the units had insufficient intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities, Bruce had said in a written statement to Marine Corps Times in February. But Marines in the new scout platoons can stay hyper-focused on providing those capabilities for the battalions, he noted.
The change comes as the Marine commandant, Gen. David Berger, has instructed the Corps to get better at reconnaissance and counter-reconnaissance.
“If you’re so big and fat and immobile and vulnerable to their sensors, all the lethality in the world ain’t going to help you,” Berger told Defense News in May 2022.
Force Design 2030, as Berger’s vision for a more modern Marine Corps is called, also asks the service to “divest the preponderance of weapon-specific military occupational specialties in the infantry battalions and build highly trained Marines who are capable of employing a range of weapons and equipment,” Bruce said in the February statement.
With a shortfall in the number of snipers, the scout sniper platoons have in recent years consisted of a limited number of full-fledged scout snipers, plus marksmen who undergo on-the-job training from their officially trained peers.
That’s not the fault of the Corps’ marksmen, retired Master Sgt. Tim Parkhurst, president of the USMC Scout Sniper Association, argued in according to a February message.
“Replacing an 18-man Scout Sniper Platoon with a 26-man Scout Platoon will not solve the ‘all weather information gathering’ problem,” Parkhurst wrote. “Retaining the skill set and the combat capability of Scout Snipers by offering a viable career path to Scout Snipers and providing them with more engaged leadership might.”
Smith, a career infantryman, maintained in his speech June 29 that even non-sniper riflemen nowadays are training in precision shooting.
“Your average rifleman, who’s an expert, was plinking targets at 700 meters,” Smith said of recent experimentation with an infantry battalion. “In fact, if you didn’t hit the 700-, 800-meter target, you’re kind of chastised, you know, for being a loser.”
“That used to be a significant emotional event, hitting a target at 800 meters,” added Smith, who, judging from his uniform, has qualified as a rifle expert at least five times.
After the fall of 2024, there will be no more seats in the Scout Sniper Basic Course, though Marine snipers can still get trained at the Reconnaissance Training Center and the Marine Raider Training Center, according to the Marine Corps’ message announcing the change.
“All schoolhouses cost people,” Smith said.
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“Retaining the skill set and the combat capability of Scout Snipers by offering a viable career path to Scout Snipers and providing them with more engaged leadership might.” “Smith, a career infantryman…”
There was a time is the Army and Marines where you could Be just a humble machine gunner and like it that way. You could remain a private as long as you liked, and just become an expert machine gunner. The rise of the business administration cult that has ruined the armed forces is clearly in evidence here. “Career paths” is the language of the boardroom and injecting that “up or out” careerist policy into the military essentially means that you throw out the professional privates who are experts at what they do in favor of mere temporary apprentices who move on well before mastering anything. I’m also certain that no Scout Sniper living or dead has ever requested “..more engaged leadership” as stated.
Agreed. The only “doubt” is that the brass can’t get wahmens to graduate the indoc courses. So they lower the standard. The ‘doubt’ is the leadership in those units in what that creates.
We even get hit, as a contractor civilian, on the civilian side of the military with this nonesense (jack of all trade, learn other ppl’s areas instead of your own).
I’ve seen it in manufacturing too, management wanted everyone trained on everyone else’s jobs. They focused hard on moving people around to learn other jobs, and then wondered why production suffered when employees weren’t doing the tasks that they were experienced at. It may not be a direct comparison, I don’t have any experience in the .mil world, but it seems like it stems from a similar mindset.
Business Administration is a cult, even within the limited domain of running a business. Central to the philosophy is the idea that trained management are wiser than the labor force and can accomplish anything by the magic virtue of having an MBA. It is assumed that practical experience in any task or skill is immaterial and is less important than the memo writing skills and resource management wizardry of the management team. This is one reason why trains leave the rails and deep dive submersibles implode with the CEO and a billionaire client onboard.
100%
Shooting a qual course once a year reapplies the badics, but that’s all it does. Shooting is a perishable skill. Issuing 10 rounds every 6 months to “check zero” is a joke. Ideally, Marines should be shooting a full day variety, USPSA equivalent, 15-24 course of fire, 3 gun match, once a month. Team combat shooting competition/practice matches build esprit de corps, comraderie, and respect. If Marines are riflemen first, then do it right!
Ask the Iraqi Army in ‘91 how shooting their T-72s’ main gun once a year worked out. Your point is dead on.
By “more engaged leadership” they mean officers that are fully trained, and experienced in the Scout Sniper position. And fully trained and experienced in the STANO field operations. As a wacky idea, each Scout Platoon member should go through DEA surveillance training at Quantico, then go back to their unit for 6 months, then go lend lease to a HIDTA unit for a 6 month surveillance, observation, and technical opetations, tune up course. If you are going to use intel based targeting, then train them for urban/city/MOUT based intel gathering, and targeting, as well! And don’t use the FBI model of issuing cell phones, and calling the bad guys from the press studio, to ask questions about how to get the bad guys to surrender!
You don’t make an admin officer a squadron commander! You put an experienced combat flyer in charge. Same analysis should be applied to STANO, Surveillance, Recon, and Sniper units, at the company, and battalion level.