When we as Armed Prepared Citizens (survivalists, preppers, militia, etc…) go about selecting our fighting/support gear, there is often a strong inclination to follow certain trends, trends that are honestly not the most appropriate ones to be following. Now, let me preface the rest of this by saying up front, I own a gear business and make gear for a living. So take that for what it’s worth.
It’s an oft followed trend for the Armed Prepared Citizen, to follow and mimic current military and law enforcement in selecting their gear. This is honestly a trap that many fall into, and one that people should really try to resist the urge to do. We need to be selecting gear that will work for OUR purposes, and ours alone. Just because the military uses something, or LE, or 3 gun competitors, etc… use something, doesn’t mean that it’s the best or even the appropriate items for us. The trend that I’ve seen for quite some years now, is for guys to copy what they see the cool guys doing and using. There is a flaw in this though that many seem to not realize. The way those guys operate, from their direct mission all the way up to and including their support chain, is vastly different than what ours are now, and ESPECIALLY if/once things go bad. We do not, and will not, have their same support structure and logistical train.
One specific example of this, is the trend to always use a plate carrier. Outside of a static defense role, this is a potentially fatal thing. How so you ask? I mean, after-all, armor stops bullets and that’s what we want right? Well, yes and no. Here are the negatives. For everything outside of the aforementioned static defense (think security/watch) we will want to be as absolutely mobile as possible. Even with the newer lightweight plates, you still won’t be as light and mobile as you will with a simple chest rig. Mobility is key for us. We have to be able to get out of a fight as quick as we got into it, and/or outmaneuver a threat. Like it or not, mobility and heavy infantry assault loads and/or plate carriers do not coincide. Another issue is heat. In all but the absolute coldest months, with any kind of movement, you will get hot. Very hot. For the military (and LE) this isn’t an issue, as they have a constant supply train to keep them stocked on things such as water. You an I however, be it patrolling our neighbor hood, our rural retreat, or whatever, water will be an issue. Go out in the mid-late summer months (especially in the deep south) and wear your plate carrier and all related gear, and do a realistic (distance/time wise) patrol and see how quickly you burn through your water. At my place, we can’t physically carry enough water to do a simple perimeter walk of the property wearing a plate carrier. Becoming a heat casualty will take you out just about as quickly as a bullet.
Our role’s as Armed Prepared Citizens, will most likely be much more akin to the LRRP teams of old (think Vietnam era) than of a modern day infantry platoon, SWAT team, or CAG/SEAL team. We’ll need to do security patrols inside of and around our neighborhoods/property, but not with the goal of getting into a fight. Our goal should be intelligence/information gathering, IE – know what’s going on immediately around us, and getting an early warning before someone who is a threat gets right on our door step. We want to be unseen, and, wait for it……, mobile. If we do end up in a fight, more times than not, our best course of action will probably be to get away from it, as opposed to fighting it out. Most of us (if we’re honest) just don’t/won’t have the manpower to field large teams, especially on a constant basis. Our gear should reflect this. A simple chest rig with 4-6 mags, and some spares in our pack, is probably a far better choice than our plate carrier with 8 mags on it, or a 10 mag chest rig that can double as a self worn TV tray.
Keep it light and simple. Palmetto State Armory AR pistol, UW Gear Mini-Swamp Fox and Smock-Lite by 0241 Tactical.
There are reasons why I make my gear the way I do. I’ve tried a lot of different load carrying setups over the years, starting with Vietnam era gear as a kid, my issue ALICE gear, up to and including current systems and plate carriers. I’ve also talked to many folks, who’ve worn it a lot longer and in a lot more places than I ever have, most of who had people shooting back at them, and I’ve taken a lot of input from them. Now, I’m not saying my gear is the way YOU should go. There may be someone else who makes something that fits your requirements better. The point is, look very hard at how you choose your gear and how you are setting it up. Keep mobility in the forefront of your mind.
Being light and mobile is key.
Gray Man
Hawkeye
Holy Serf
Jesse James
JC Dodge
Jesse James
johnyMac
Matt Bracken
NC Scout
Patriotman
Sam Culper
Thank you for your post, it makes a lot of sense, especially the ‘keeping it lightweight and mobile’ thoughts. I live waaay down south, (south of San Antonio Texas for reference) so have no idea what winter clime patrolling is like in real cold conditions Here, snow fall is extremely rare and when is hardly covers the ground at all. In the summer, water makes up most of the carried weight if we are far from the vehicles. Hardly any wild sources of water (if you don’t count windmills which are far away from cities any way) so knowing where to find it will become VITAL INFORMATION.
Thank you again for the post.
It’s desirable to give up a little armor in exchange for extra mobility when you’re part of a group who’s bread and butter IS mobility.
This is a common discussion and the peer pressure antics are what lead most to their chosen gear. The vast majority do not actually use it. The same brain cells of mine that buy fishing lures are the ones that buy gear. It looked good in the store but now that it’s wet…
Even if they were this or that once upon a time here or there that setup may not be the best. In other words I see a lot of desert stuff running around getting hung up on brush and sticking out like a sore thumb now. I made some of the same mistakes when I came out of the Army after 20 too. I’ll probably do the same leaving my LEO career into security when I retire soon too LOL.
The flip side of that coin is going with what you know. That can be done because we live in a place where you practically obtain everything in every configuration possible. So if like the XYZ then great get it in a color that at least matches the terrain you live in.
If I had a nickel every single time I heard “the Delta Seals Rangers SF use it” I could buy anything I wanted and have a badA truck to carry it all in and pay cash. I mean that’s great but your not popping in for a 30 minute mission and bouncing out because you live here so you ain’t fighting at 9, dinner at 5 and tv at 7 and your gear should reflect that. It’s 18hr days and much of it will be working to stay fed, stay safe and keep managing living issues that arise. Those moral patches ain’t helping so….
As someone who was in .mil in the mid 80’s, we were issued the old fashioned ALICE LBE rig..Y or H harnesses, 2-4 mag pouches, 2 canteens, and a butt pack, pretty much handled everything we needed..We used the med or large ALICE ruck with or without the frame and called it a day.
My go to rig today is the modern MOLLE version with a nice riggers belt inside a war belt, H harness, 2 mag pouches, two h20 rigs, IFAK, and admin pouch..If i need to hump something, small 3 day pack and i’m gtg…
Damn near zero heat build up, and can go more prone than a snake too if need be…Un hook the belt, can still move about…
If i need armor for static ops, i can wear it under rig and be ok too…
Worked then, works now….
ps…i’ve seen your kit too, nice stuff, well built, good quality stuff….
Hawkeye,side note comment.I after review you wrote did some more reading and bought a pair of the TruSpec pants you had written about.I will say they are user friendly in that digging/hiking/every day wear about very comfy and non binding no matter what position I find myself in doing chores.I was a little put off initially by pockets(plenty of em)being so laid out to the side leg but sure enough had em stuffed with stuff,found meself crawling under a home on piers and suddenly the side pockets seems very nice as had em jammed with small tools ect and yet crawling in,well…..,a crawl space tools not digging into me.I will say they have enough movement if I had the skills of say Bruce lee would not feel confined engaging in Bruce Lee butt kickings(alas,do not have Bruce’s skills!).I do though feel a bit hesitant going all out in say framing with them ect. as have torn many pants thru the years doing renovations/homebuilding,will try em in that next and see how it goes,would love a pair with a heavier material and will actually write em about that,feel there is a market for that.I would also really like knee pockets to add say some foam for emergency knee pads,have added this on older pairs of my pants and as wear in a pair may add me own pockets on a pair of these.In the end though liked the pair I got so much bought another pair,a hair under 40 on the big e but to me worth it,so,thanks for that and your other reviews.
I have no combat experience. I’ve seen this advice (skip the armor), yet I’ve heard the opposite from Mosby and other people I’ve taken classes from (wear the armor). Some guys split the middle and say “It depends.” Duh. If you ask Mosby, his response (roughly) is “Get stronger – you’ll live longer.”
If I were in “intelligence collecting” and “break contact” mode (rather than Protracted Firefight Mode), wouldn’t it be somewhat better to keep 9lbs. of plates on and skip: a) 3 x 30 round mags (maybe total of 4), 1L of water (1.5L instead of 2.5L), and 1 lb. of boots (go with running shoes?) so you could keep the magic talisman against Sucking Chest Wound?
I know plates don’t save one from everything. I also know that Shoot/Move/Communicate requires people to be able to Move as well (or better?) than they can Shoot, and that 9 lbs. of chest mounted weight vest makes movement slower. OTOH, I also know that Getting Shot In The Plate is better than Getting Shot NOT In The Plate, and people shot in the plate move faster than people shot NOT in the plate.
Willing to be educated / have my mind changed. Hawkeye’s article on “Poor Mans’ Sniper” (or whatever it was called) got me to buy ( via a link from AP Vendor/Supporter PSA…) a PSA rifle kit + lower. I’m about to break my rule about optics needing to cost 2x the price of the gun and buy a Primary Arms per his review – so I’m not dogging the author, here.
This article hasn’t got me sold on skipping the rifle-rated plates yet. If we’re talking about 20 lbs of AR-500, I think I get the point. If we’re talking about 9 lbs. of 10×12 coverage that stops multiple rounds of 855 Greentip at 25 feet, I dunno. I just got done doing the 5th Group/Legion Run ‘n’ Gun / 9-11 Memorial event. 10K Run + 7 ‘blind’ shooting stages along the way. If I hadn’t packed 110 *extra* rounds of rifle ammo (3.5 mags) and 50 *extra* rounds of handgun ammo (3 Glock 17 mags), I would have been able to carry plates nearly for “free”.
If someone says “Yeah – but you may *need* that ammo, and you never know…”, my answer to that is this: If I see it coming, I can leave – which will (probably) mean less ammo needs. If I *don’t* see it coming, I may need that armor to even have a chance to spend what ammo I brung along in the first place.
Again, no flame intended. These are the musings of a 50 year old who occasionally rolls on the jitz mats, has been in a few fist fights in my 20s, and has pulled a gun on someone one time. No combat experience, no gun battles, and no shooting at people or incoming rounds in my direction. Just looking for feedback for what I’m working on with my little group.
I will not speak for Hawkeye however, I will speak for myself.
1) Match your gear to the mission. Doing a standard patrol around the redoubt, I will not be wearing plates. Mine are about 3 1/2# each so just a lousy 7-pounds or so but I am interested in stealth – recon & surveillance not fighting. My goal is to radio back to the TOC what I find if anything.
2) If I am going into a perceived fire zone I will weigh the risk and add plates if I think it is warranted. A good example would be a door to door CQB situation.
3) I am not military trained either. However, I do train with a bunch of military folks currently employed & retired. Hawkeye is a great example of a retired bad ass. When he says recon & surveillance he means just that…No trigger time. Watch, learn and report back to the TOC.
Brunop, thanks for questioning Hawkeye’s mind set because many others are thinking similar to what you bring up. Hopefully, some other folks will jump in with a more complete resume than I have.
Take care Brother.
I’m going to take a different track here and approach this from a slightly different perspective by asking a few questions…
How many of you have a fire extinguisher near by, just in case?
How about jumper cables and a tool set in your vehicle, just in case?
How many of you pay for car insurance, just in case?
Home insurance, health insurance, you get the idea…
How many of you, in this preparedness category, have food insurance?
Armor is just one more form of insurance. It is not an absolute, but it is definitely a consideration.
If you ask someone who is down to their last mag in a gunfight how important ammo is, you’re going to get a predicable answer. The same is true if you ask someone with a sucking chest wound how important armor is.
In a WROL/lights out (or whatever you want to call it) environment, we (collectively) can probably deal with the medical considerations involved in a gunshot wound (GSW) to an extremity. It might not be ideal, but we can deal with it. The same cannot be said for a GSW to the thoracic cavity.
People who know me or have been around me know that I state this line often, “People don’t know what they don’t know” and I include myself in this of course. Talk to people who have been shot at and even more importantly, talk to the ones who have been hit and were lucky enough to survive. They know.
I find it naive to even consider that we think that we have guns and we will shoot and hit our targets yet the people we are shooting at will not hit theirs. I’ve deployed more than most in my military career seeing my share of FWIAs and FKIAs and most of them thought it would never happen to them. Obviously, if we know we are going to get into a gunfight, we are going to plan appropriately and bring lots of people with lots of guns. That is a given. For all of those not planning to get into a gunfight as commenters have mentioned above, that is where Murphy is going to get you. The bad guys are going to attack you when conditions favor them, not you. It is a simple fundamental of setting an ambush, hasty or deliberate.
As for me, I’ll stack the deck in my favor with every opportunity I can. I’ll wear my armor and work even harder to deal with whatever second order effects result from the extra weight/heat though proper training and conditioning. I’ll take the insurance.
JohnyMac – I appreciate your time and your response. Thanks a bunch.
“…the trend to always use a plate carrier. Outside of a static defense role, this is a potentially fatal thing…..For everything outside of the aforementioned static defense (think security/watch) we will want to be as absolutely mobile as possible….Mobility is key for us. We have to be able to get out of a fight as quick as we got into it, and/or outmaneuver a threat….If we do end up in a fight, more times than not, our best course of action will probably be to get away from it, as opposed to fighting it out.”
Point after point after point – right. on. the. nail. head.
Nicely done!
Thank you sir.
Good stuff as always.
You always end up fighting the next war the way you fought the last one. People are copying mil gear for police actions, kicking in doors or riding in a truck till you get to your location, do the job, get back in the truck and go back to the FOB. If we got involved in a more green war with woods, swamps, jungles you would slowly see the gear change again back to 80s set ups. Slowly being the key word.
Even those in great shape and young while wearing armor may not get prone or take proper cover because their “light infantry” load out is approaching 60#. So you see guys standing when they should be getting low.
If I was going to be patrolling I would prefer an ALICE type load out with the weight closer to my center allowing me to take a knee behind cover or get up and down a lot easier than having that weight center chest and pulling me down. Old school LBE not only keeps you cooler in the summer it doesnt compress your insulation in the winter. The only issue I’ve had is where does your pistol go. If I saw myself being in a vehicle of urban direct action I would go back to a chest rig or armor.
For another perspective, read Joe Nobody’s book “The teotwawki tuxedo”.
Counter intuitive but crucial point of view on blending in. It may cause you to rethink everything in a more critical sense and remove your biases.
YMMV.
$0.02
100% true.
Plate carriers are bulky. And nothing will protect you from a barrage of 30 rounds of High Velocity Rifle ammo.
Any round to any part of the body is fatal.
Body armor is designed to make a soldier feel invincible. Which is why the charge straight towards the enemy.
What they don’t tell you is that nobody is aiming for your armor.
They aim for your face and your legs.
You could, In theory, take the plates out of your rig. But heat mitigation is still an issue.
As always, the correct answer is…it depends. I know people who will use a wrench as a hammer. Every-single-time: it is appropriate to use the correct tool for the task at hand. Unfortunately, we don’t always know up front what the task at hand is. Only you know what your AO is, what support you have is, and what your capabilities are. At 60, I’m not planning on doing the same amount of humping that I did when I played with Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children. I also don’t know what I will be faced with in the future. It’s best to acquire all of the tools that you might need to handle your tasks, and use them when appropriate.
To quote General Helmuth von Moltke: “no plan survives contact with the enemy”.
What’s camo in one place may stick out like turd in a punchbowl elsewhere.
Good write up, I feel like if most people would test their gear out in conditions other than a flat range they would learn so much so fast. Walking through the woods helps you figure out real quick that anything without retention while nice for fast access tends to fall out or get snagged and pulled out, hell I even had a cleaning rod under my AK disappear without me seeing it come out. On the range though at a minimum get down in prone, try some less than ideal positions working around barriers and this will also tell you if what you have and WHERE you have it works for you.
I never served. But I’m deep into weapons being a manufacturer of aluminum modular weapons. I run into a lot of Prepper/Militia types really concerned about their KIT. It always seems to involve armor and a heavy pack. They live where I live. In the burbs man. I don’t think we will have adequate warning when the shit starts. Grab as many mags as you can stuff in your pants and start trying to survive might be the real shit. And if you want cammo, paint yourself up as a house or a fence. It’ll be a chore to get to National Forrest. Nobodies going to be screaming WOLVERINES, and it’s going to be ugly. Just my thoughts. I think this article is definitely headed in the proper direction.
Having a hard time finding the Smock Lite from 0241. Do you, or anyone else, have a good link?
I talked to him today. He’s awaiting resupply on some hardware and such. Once he’s back stocked up he’ll be relisting them and opening up orders again.
Great article and follows exactly the way I approach my gear, both as a professional and as an armed citizen. Lighter, faster, smarter is my mantra when it comes to this.