Questions from the Scout Course & Observations on Woodland Combat
I received the following email from a student in the last Scout Course and the observations contained I feel are critical for the larger audience. These are just some of the realities of fighting in woodland environments and lessons that are having to be re-learned at all levels after 20 years of GWOT-inspired thinking. Its almost a completely different animal.
Hey my friend,I want to say first of all, it was a privilege to train with you and everyone there. No one quit ever. Everyone fought hard in training and it was amazing to see. You once said you don’t have lightweights in class, and it really showed.After a few days of internalizing the lessons taught, I have a few questions.1) On the react to contact drill, when we are contacted, we all run forward, form a line and then open fire. The spacing is roughly the same as the wedge formation, so we are all still on the same space so to speak. If our team is taking fire, could a variation of this be that one element immediately returns fire while the others just start to bound? This is of course assuming you see the muzzle flash of whoever is shooting at you.2) For stalking, the heavy Reebok boots I have are just horrendous for that. My feet didn’t hurt whatsoever but forget tactile feel. Years ago, I did some Japanese Martial Arts where it wasn’t uncommon to wear Tabi boots. They are soft soled as it gets and you can feel it all. Is there a certain threshold of where we don’t want it too soft soled though? I did take the notes of the footwear that was recommended in class. To be honest, I was half debating just painting a pair of under armour sneakers I own and always pairing them with waterproof socks so I don’t get soaked.3) Again as part of the react to contact, we are on the same line of advance so to speak. Would it throw off an attacker by moving off the X, or is the distance moved so insignificant that you’re better off just advancing and immediately putting lead on target? Even during our ambushes and force on force, any time I was going prone I’d immediately shift and whoever I had in sight of my ACOG they seemed to have problems tracking me after I shifted.4) In an austere environment, the ability to even have the manpower that we had the class might be a little tough. What is the minimum needed to conduct the LZ ambush that we did on our final day? I’m thinking a support by fire element could still be effective with as few as five men provided they either had a lot of ammo, or had belt fed weapons that were repurposed for our team.5) This isn’t a question as much as it is an observation. ACOG vs LPVO. When we were rolling in the woods and brush during our ambushes and such, having too much magnification could be a huge issue. The 4x seemed to be the best balance. On the first day, once I identified the targets at 425 m, they weren’t small. The hash mark was exact. I noticed no one was adjusting their LPVOs during our contact phases during force on force. They were BAC just like us dudes with ACOGs were.
Hey brother!
- The longer you do this as a team, the more instinctual it will become. Your observation is correct, but it takes a lot of time with your guys in the field to get to that level. Its part of what I was talking about when I brought up the example of non-verbal communication in tight teams, no matter what the job is.
- Tabi boots would do the exact same thing as what I was wearing – the same with wrestling shoes. The last time I ran the Scout course I did part of it it in a pair of knockoff five finger shoes from Amazon that I wear when I’m swinging kettlebells.
- Yep. Good observations.
- Its tough NOW. But likely not so as things progress. There’s already no shortage of folks willing even at the moment now, but we’re not quite at that point in the Resistance Pyramid. The numbers required for a raid of that size is about what we had in class, possibly more held in reserve. It was a great representation of how to actually conduct a raid by the book, versus hollywood shoot-em up fantasies. Your job moving forward is to develop a competent training program for those new guys.
- Just like in #3, you’re spot on. I talked a bit about this on day 1 when I spoke to the magnification range for practical use versus just having a high top end. 1-6 might even be too much for most applications, and that’s also why I said put it on one magnification and leave it there. Higher magnification is handy to have for sure, but realistically most of your guys are not shooting past 200m in eastern woodland environments. It *is* however critical to have the marksmanship ability to accurately engage further than that, gaining confidence among your riflemen and operating inside the Danger Close range (‘hugging’ enemy forces). The magnification and field of view are inversely proportionate, as are its relationship to light gathering. For that reason I keep an ACOG in the inventory (one of the ladies was running my rifle with the TA-33 on it) and still suggest it for most applications. As you learned, woodland combat in double canopy conifer / deciduous vegetation (or any combat environment, for that matter) is a whole different animal from flat range shooting & weapons manipulation classes. Those are CRITICAL to master for obvious reasons, but there’s a finite point of mastery on one’s manual of arms that does not answer the fundamental question of fighting as a team. Its an entirely different animal as you now know.
Its important to dust off some of the older work that I’ve written and posted here in years past. There’s a reason a lot of this material is being revisited and re-evaluated today, because we should not fall into the trap of preparing for the next war by fighting the last one over and over. But the bottom line is this – you should be out training every chance you have. If you’re not, you’re nothing more than a bystander in for a violently rude awakening.
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About the Author: NC Scout
NC Scout is the nom de guerre of a former Infantry Scout and Sergeant in one of the Army’s best Reconnaissance Units. He has combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He teaches a series of courses focusing on small unit skills rarely if ever taught anywhere else in the prepping and survival field, including his RTO Course which focuses on small unit communications. In his free time he is an avid hunter, bushcrafter, writer, long range shooter, prepper, amateur radio operator and Libertarian activist. He can be contacted at [email protected] or via his blog at brushbeater.wordpress.com .
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GUNS N GEAR
I’d like to offer a couple of thoughts on question number 5. I don’t have any .mil experience, but I have spent a lot of time in the woods in central NC toting rifles around. For the woodlands here in the Southeast, 4x is plenty for most locations most of the time. I was an adult before I had ever even looked through ANY rifle scope that was over 4x. Going with what NC Scout said, most of the areas here you’re going to be within 200 meters of anything you’re aiming at, simply due to the terrain and woods. Even a red dot or irons are just fine out to that distance as far as being able to hit your target- last march at the Scout Course I was making hits on steel consistently at 200 meters with an iron sighted AK74, and another one with a red dot on an ultimak rail. That being said, PID is going to be easier with magnification, and if you do need to make a longer shot, it’s nice to have magnification.
My favorite scope that I have on a carbine is a 2.5x Primary Arms prism scope. There are times that I wish it had a little more magnification, but it does the job, and does it well in the woods here. I think the model that replaced it is 3x, which would be perfect.
I picked up a Vortex Viper PST 1-6x Gen 2 recently. Was torn between it and the newer Vortex or Burris 3x. I like the higher magnification of the Viper for PID, but I settled on 3x for a default setting.
I’m hoping to replace the old 3-9×40 scope on one of mine with a Vortex 1-6. Are you happy with it, are there any things you don’t like?
Hi WWES, just gonna throw my 2cents in on the LPVO. I have a Primary Arms First Focal Plane (FFP) 1-8x LPVO, and I find it to be excellent. Especially with the FFP, the scope has very little parallaxing at 1x, and can serve as a sort of red-dot sight at the 1x level, but can also scale up and down between 1 – 8x, which then gives it nice versatility for any long-distance engagements you might need it for.
I like the scope. Same as conan stated below, only difference is magnification tops out at 6x. I think the biggest consideration is cost.
Thank both of you for the feedback. I have looked at the Vortex and PA offerings, I’ll probably stick with 1-6X with whatever I go with, so it’s good to hear that both of you like yours.
It’s awesome to hear that these guys are not just learning these skills in class, they’re critically thinking about how to apply them afterwards. This is what the community needs. This is how tacticians are made.
So much of Appalachistan where I am has been deforested, or the high ground means 300 meter shots. The ACOG just works perfect for that. Offsets are good, but admittedly I want that reflex on top for dense woods, just $$$ right now is tight. I missed the Scout Course, but the guys that went are running us through what they learned. Hearing the stories from class and reading the recent article here on A.P. has my wishlist $$$ on a drone right now. You can patrol in 5 minutes in VR what would take you and hour and a lot of exposure to do on foot, plus with HDMI you can have a second set of eyes on and be simultaneously recording. They even sell a $32 upgrade that allows you to carry and drop “packages”!!! So that’s next on my wishlist. Also, Coleman’s surplus has concertina wire on sale by the pallet right now, 40 x 50′ rolls, the quick ground deployed stuff painted brown with those wicked little short tines. Its not that badly priced if you are sharing the cost with your group and can be a game changer for perimeter and kill zone establishment. I was blown away by how motivated everybody was and I was so sorry to have missed it, but Brandon’s economy has me working basically everyday just to provide! The stuff on the footwear and training formations is just great stuff. I haven’t put on a pair of wrestling shoes since 8th grade, but it makes complete sense.