Is the 1911 Still Relevant? With Bill Wilson
Share This Story, Choose Your Platform!
About the Author: NC Scout
NC Scout is the nom de guerre of a former Infantry Scout and Sergeant in one of the Army’s best Reconnaissance Units. He has combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He teaches a series of courses focusing on small unit skills rarely if ever taught anywhere else in the prepping and survival field, including his RTO Course which focuses on small unit communications. In his free time he is an avid hunter, bushcrafter, writer, long range shooter, prepper, amateur radio operator and Libertarian activist. He can be contacted at [email protected] or via his blog at brushbeater.wordpress.com .
12 Comments
Comments are closed.
Related Posts
GUNS N GEAR
To me, it depends on application. In a Civilian CCW context, sure. As far as taking one “to war”…nope. I can swap the extractor on a Glock in under 5 minutes and I know with 100% certainty that it will work. You can’t do that with a 1911. Period. Those type of parts have to be fitted- by someone who knows what they are doing. Those guys are fewer and fewer every year- go get a reliable Wheelgun timing job done if you doubt me, it’s the same concept. You can’t get it done at Joes Gunshop in Pigslop Hollar Tennessee in under an hour, promise you.
I carried 1911’s for 15 years- everything from Argentine 1927 Colts to Les Baers, Garthwaites etc…Masterpieces. But they require a lot of hand fitting to be 100% reliable–unless you want a rattle trap- which will beat itself to death- tolerances and specs are “a thing”…….Love the gun but it’s seen it’s day for hard use.
You have a strong position, however, I would submit that the necessary information is available. Wilson Combat is a great place to learn how to fit a barrel, or set proper recoil spring tension, etc.
Oh, you can certainly learn to do it. Before the “internet of everything” I purchased the Kuhnhausen set of 1911 repair manuals- there are TWO volumes—for a reason….It can be learned like everything- how to pin an Ejector, restake a plunger tube, fit a barrel bushing, replace a grip screw bushing, fit a link, ramp a barrel…I’ve DONE most of that stuff- in part because I HAD TO……
But, why? I love old Slabsides but I’m not going to try to keep one running Post SHTF–too many tools, too many parts that require fitting, too few parts sources, parts are expensive etc…..Simple is better…I can buy a Glock extractor from pretty much any gunshop in the county for $10 and it works…It’s the AK47 of handguns. I just don’t have time to mess with that kind of stuff anymore honestly. I’m glad I know how to do it, but the value of learning to do it from scratch now I think is greatly surpassed by learning other things. There is never enough time in the day/week/year for a Survivalist/Homesteader….
Now, before I get dog piled as a Hater, the fact is that in the right hands, a well built 1911 is capable of amazing feats of accuracy and even reliability. Properly set up, fed good ammo, well maintained a quality 1911 will run for a long, long time. Much longer than the average shooter will ever need- but the average shooter isn’t going to spend the money for such a gun and accessories and maintenance. And, the new generation of “1911’s”- Stacatto etc…do correct many of the issues of the legacy design. It’s just a question of if the juice is worth the squeeze and for me as a “general purpose” field pistol- it’s not.
Interesting, you mentioned extractors twice now. Do you have a lot of extractor problems? Also of note is your leaning towards custom parts. Of, course you have to fit them in a 1911. Everyone and their dog has built their own version of it. The thing is, the article asks, “if the 1911 is still relevant?” Just by what you wrote. It is, if for a gunsmithing class and nothing else.
Extractors are a critical part of any combat firearm and see use every time the trigger is pulled and even during the administrative loading and un loading cycle. See Trapdoor Springfields at the Battle of the Little Bighorn or the M16 in Vietnam for a lesson on the importance of extractors and proper ammunition and maintenance…..You will note that even the HI Power started with an extractor similar to the 1911 but that it was later changed to a much simpler and easier to install and produce design. Several later 1911 pistols- those made by Smith Wesson, Kimber and Sig in particular, use/ used, an entirely different extractor system. It’s a widely recognized design/use issue in the 1911.
Custom parts are almost a necessity with the 1911. The gun has been made by 100 different companies over 100 years….Some were absolutely faithful to original specifications in dimensions, production methods and materials-others, not so much. The same is true of replacement parts. So, yes, the parts often have to be modified for proper fitment and long term reliability- custom parts.
Can you just take off the shelf parts from Y Company, made a year ago and slap them in a 50 year old pistol made by X Company and have it work? Maybe. And maybe the pistol will shear the barrel lug off 3,000 rounds in. Now, many shooters will never shoot 3,000 rounds through their pistols so that may be a moot point…
I’ve seen pictures of guys in Ukraine carrying Mosin rifles into combat. For them, who apparently have no other choice, the Mosin is clearly relevant if completely obsolete by any objective standard. Because I have a choice, to me, the 1911 is largely irrelevant as a combat firearm.
Oh Hell Yes it’s relevant! Here’s something not discussed in the video; “literally every modern semi auto pistol built, owes something in its design to the 1911…that alone makes it relevant and timeless.
Outside of the historical and anectodal interests, this storytelling is not of any real help. When we have comments like “use a man’s gun”, like this new fad of the 9mm just started last week, but it will never catch on…and then go on about how the bad guys couldn’t shoot the 1911 owners with their own guns because they couldn’t figure out the safety. I sure hope nobody is counting on bad guy stupidity to help keep them safe. 1911’s are safer they say, you can be extra stupid and careless with your gun handling and equipment choices, because gripsafety and manual safety will save you!
Just more dated prattle from the Glock-hating back-when crowd about the magic power of the .45 ACP and their “god” inventor JMB. I have seen the viceral hatred and distrust of the striker-fired pistol for 30 years, maybe more.
Most of these people have barely, if ever, really trained with one, of whatever flavor. Despite decades of proven military performance in harsh environments all over the world and in LEO groups as well. These guys would not dare to soil themselves by touching a Glock.
In short, these guys are being willfully shortsighted and overly generous with their estimation of the 1911 when compared to proven,modern equipment. Sure I would rather have an M1 rifle and a 1911 than nothing, but not instead of a quality AR rifle and a Glock 17.
100% agree with Yeoman. I like old school Fudd guns as much as the next gun guy but if I’m pressed into defense I want my Glocks.
Is the 1911 relevant? No
Is the 1911 one of the coolest, most fun to shoot pistols that should be in everyone’s gun safe? Hell yes.
I love my Colt Gold Cup, but I can’t think of a single scenario where I would carry that gun, either in a CCW role or a grid-down scenario.
All handguns are a compromise. To be fair the 1911 is still somewhat common here, so being able to use one is probably a good idea. I don’t see the value in the gucci 1911 though. I’d rather use the money for training, ammo, or some other enabler such as a dot equipped modern handgun, an acog, nods, etc.
Although I carry a SigSauer P320 for my daily carry with a Kydex IWB holster, I still respect the 1911 for several reasons.
1) The dual safeties: I doubt most criminals today know how to disengage both
2) As pointed out above, over 50% of semiautomatic pistols still owe their legacy to the 1911 or the Hi-Power; I own the latter, not the former
3) Most importantly: stopping power. Yes, the 9mm has a come a long way but hit someone once with a Federal HYDRA-SHOK .45 ACP and in documented police shootings it’s been 1 shot stop meaning the force of the 230 grain round drops the person shot to the ground or knocks them off their feet. The 3% that don’t drop don’t make it beyond 10 feet before dropping.
Anecdotally, one of my parents is a trauma surgeon. If you get with 9 mm, it’s bad, possibly fatal. If you get hit with .45 it’s a higher likelihood of going to the morgue. Said parent had a patient one time that took several rounds of .45 along with something else; they coded on the OR table.
As I said above, although I don’t carry one (mainly due to money) it still is relevant.
Finally, before anyone calls me an old fart, I was born in close proximity age wise to Scout.
I carry a Colt Combat Commander, 38 Super, 10 rds, cocked and locked, in good leather. That’s 124 grs at 1350, times ten, plus a spare mag. I do not feel under-gunned. If I am to die, I will do so well dressed, but the other guy had better be very good… or lucky, or a backshooter, in which case no other gun will make the difference.
I have many choices including a Spfld XD-M with three 19 rd 9mm mags on board in my get home bag in case there are crew served weapons (a crowd of hostiles) in my way. But it is a clunky big gun on the hip and certainly nothing easily concealed. Butt ugly too compared to any decent 1911. Even though the XD-M trigger is very good for a striker pistol, it is not and never will be, anywhere near the equal of a well tuned 1911… so far, this is the first mention of that irrefutable and crucial fact. A perfect trigger is an indispensable asset when accuracy and speed are paramount.
Fair mention: I’ve installed the new Timney trigger in a few Glocks and it is a very significant improvement: far less takeup, crisp release, zero creep and short reset. The striker is fully “cocked” and resting on an actual sear… the trigger stroke does not have to finish driving the striker to the rear before release, so the long mushy trigger is no more. The trigger merely releases the striker just as in the manner of any sear/hammer fired gun. The only trigger kit I have installed that made a real difference. And the Glock safety features are still operational, although I have seen guys trying to suggest otherwise.
Not trying to pick a fight. All points made above re reliability without skilled maintenance, etcetcetc are valid and make a lot of sense for shtf/wrol/ armageddon. But, I’ve been working on/building 1911’s for more than 25 years…. I think I’ll be able to manage.